Who is more important in the history of the world, The Beatles or Pablo Picasso?
This was the argument Jessie and I had tonight (and Morgan and Melissa). Personally, I say The Beatles because everyone can buy a Beatles album for $10.99, and everyone can listen to a Beatles album over and over again and love it just as much as the first time they've ever heard it. You can look at a Picasso and love it, but you can't love it over and over again like you can love Revolver. You can't sing along to a Picasso at 3 in the morning and think "this song might be about me." You can look at it and think, "Man, that guy could paint," but you can't sing along to it like "I'm a Loser" and think that no one has ever understood you like John did with that song, even though it was written 13 years before you were born.
Music, thanks to The Beatles, transcends art. Quick, name a current popular artist (i.e., a painter). Odds are that you can't. If I would have asked you to name a popular musician or music group, you could probably name several hundred. You know why? John, Paul, George, and Ringo. In 300 years, people will remember Picasso as a great painter, but people will remember The Beatles as the four Liverpudlians who defined modern music, just as much as Beethoven or Mozart did several hundred years ago. To be blunt, no one gives a shit about painters anymore, at least not like musicians.
Let me know what you think about this argument: who is more important in the history of the world, The Beatles or Picasso?
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6 comments:
True, you can listed The Beatles and enjoy it every time. You can learn something about the song or the artist with each turn of the vinyl (I'm being metaphoric here). For instance, I just bought Radiohead's Kid A and have listened to it now 4 or 5 times within the last few days and will be listening to it a lot more. Kid A has a lot more to teach me about itself.
So, why do I disagree? Let me ask this: Which name is more recognizable Ray Kroc or Paul McCartney? And the argument can be made that McDonald's has had an even larger influence in the world. (Read Friedman's The Lexus and the Olive Tree) How many houses or buildings have been influnced by the Beatles? How many color schemes and styles of clothes have been influenced by The Beatles? How much of the interior of your your house or office has been influnced by The Beatles, lamps and tables included? Not only that, how many designers are given credit for something that arose from the influence of Picasso? The list can go on and on.
The influence of Picasso is absolutely embedded deeply in the culture of the world. Nowhere other than music, religion and politics have the Beatles really made a mark, and there they are not even the most influential. The only people who believe that are you die hard Beatles fans, which is not a bad thing, but does lead to such arguments as this. It is hard to notice Picasso's full impact unless you really know and study Picasso, just like The Beatles class you took in college. Unfortunately, with the way our schools are run these days, he may never get the credit he deserves. I'll stop there because this argument is moot anyway. Two words: Michael Jordan.
PS HR Giger, current painter. Influenced a whole sequence of Alien movies.
I would disagree that The Beatles' sole influence lies in music, religion, and politics. Their impact on culture has been pretty important.
I would say that they had an immense influence on fashion. The whole mod style came about in large part because of them, both as far as the way people dressed, but also the way people got their hair cut (or didn't). People wanted to look and dress like The Beatles, and it would be ignorant to say that their look did not influence fashion designers and styles of clothing, and derivatively, mod style furniture and the like. Anytime you see someone wearing round eyeglasses, you immediately think of John Lennon. I would argue that they were one of the most important influences with regard to the flower power era and showing the world that having longer hair than, and dressing differently than, your parents was socially acceptable. The Beatles allowed for our parents' generation's liberation from everything that had previously been socially expected of them, as far as personal appearance, dress, how they carried themselves, how they spoke, how they approached (and questioned) authority, how they wrote, how they sang, etc., etc., etc.
Without The Beatles, I would argue that rock and roll would have been just a musical fad. After Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, and The Big Bopper died in 1959, rock and roll went through a very dry spell. Had The Beatles not come along several years later, rock and roll may have died as well. Instead of dying, rock and roll became the single most important art form to emerge from the 20th Century. Suddenly kids went from saying, "one day I want to be the President" to saying "I want to be a rock star."
The Beatles influence on commerce should not be understated. Beatlemania influenced the future of merchandising and how artists and musicians were marketed. For the first time, you could own something besides just a band's album. Suddenly there were fan magazines devoted entirely to The Beatles. There were Beatles mugs, Beatles cups, Beatles plates, Beatles wigs, Beatles trading cards, Beatles dolls, Beatles stickers, Beatles pins, and probably just about anything else you could imagine.
The Beatles also showed the world that art can be made by regular people, and that you didn't have to be some sort of misunderstood genius, a child of wealthy parents, or classically trained/educated in order to have the chance to make art. These guys were four kids from a working-class port town who came from modest backgrounds. I don't know exactly how that kind of influence can be measured, since it is impossible to count the number of normal, "nonprivileged" kids since 1964 who have picked up a guitar or a drumstick.
What I think is very telling about The Beatles' importance and influence is that people remember where they were when they heard the news that John Lennon died, just like they remember where they were when Kennedy died or the Challenger blew up. If you've ever seen any news clips from Lennon's death, grown men were unabashedly bawling. The same can't be said for Picasso, at least as far as I know.
the beatles are the most overrated thing in the history of the world. that's right, including Jesus, and, for that matter, me.
picasso, w/o doubt. pointless debate.
I do not disagree with the fact that The Beatles had a bigger impact on the world than most modern musicians. First,I disagree with the fact that the influence originated with them. They were the leaders of the "British Rock Invasion" and as such, were not unique in their style. Second, you have to understand Picasso's influence went far beyond those pop culture elements you mentioned.
Someone had to cut their hair, design their clothes, and take the pictures for their trading cards and albums. That was already the fashion of the day An artist already designed all of that. Which much of it was a modern version of Picasso's imagination.
As for Lennon's glasses, those were also designed by an artist. Sure, the credit goes to Lennon, but an artist made John Lennon, John Lennon.
I would even go as far as saying Elvis Presley had more of an influence of our parents' "liberation".
The Beatles have influenced and had an impact upon millions of people in a personal way. That, plus the aforementioned political, religious, and cultural influences make them more influential. Picasso was a great influence, I don't deny that, but come on, folks--if Picasso had not existed, some modern art and interior design my be different. If the Beatles had not existed, our entire culture (for better or worse) would probably be different. That's simplifying it, sure, but it's still true. I stand behind Andrew on this one (sorry Jessie!).
The Beatles have a way longer Wikipedia entry than does Picasso. That pretty much settles it.
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